[00:12] Lori Jo Vest: Hello, everybody. I'm Lori Jo Vest. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Work Mom Says Don't Be an Idiot, where we talk about different ways to play the emotional contact sport of business, so you experience less drama and more success. So today, my guest is Sharnell James. I am so excited about this episode. We've talked about some heavy things lately, and Sharnell is the guru of self-care, I would say. I met Sharnell out in the networking space, out in the world, and she just has this really great approach to mental health and wellness. And I think this is going to be one of our best episodes. So, Sharnell, hello. How are you?
[00:58] Sharnell James: I'm great. How are you?
[01:00] Lori Jo Vest: Very good. So you're the founder of Dear Self Care, which you describe as a mental wellness space focused on healing, reflection, and intentional self-care. Tell me about your business.
[01:14] Sharnell James: Yes, I just want to say thank you so much, Lori, for having me. You have always just been a light in the networking world space, I would say. Whenever I see you, you're just always so excited to be present and excited to be a part of everyone's journey in some way of supporting them. So thank you for having me.
[01:34] Lori Jo Vest: It's kind of — I always say I take after my great-grandmother. When I met her, she was in her 90s, and she was just so loving, and I always wanted to be that. So I think I've become that over time, and it's so much fun to just be loving and caring about other people. So I draw those people in, and it's really fun. So tell us about your business — how did you start it, and what's it about?
[02:01] Sharnell James: Absolutely. So back to the initial question — Dear Self Care was birthed in the midst of my own, I would say struggle, but I wouldn't call it a struggle — it was a journey. At the time I was in undergrad, going to Grand Valley State University, and I was involved in everything. When I say everything, I mean everything — I was an RA, president of the MPHC, in my sorority, a girlfriend, a daughter — all of these things. And because of that, being so busy, I was pouring into all these cups and I was not being poured back into. I found myself not eating — if you know me, you know I love to eat, Lori. Not going to class, canceling meetings, standing friends up. I literally, in my dorm, went on Google and typed in "signs of depression," and my whole wig was blown back — because one, in our community, nobody even talks about mental health for real. And if you talk about mental health, it's "you're crazy," "that's what white people deal with," "you got to go pray about it." But also, it was hard for me because I'm that girl — everyone knows Sharnell as positive and upbeat. It was a hard pill to swallow. So I did my work, went through therapy, got professionally diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and depressive episodes. And in that journey I learned it's not only me. During my depressive episodes there was this show called Dear White People, and I loved it — it was perfect because it was the 2016–2017 era, Black Lives Matter was really big, the Trump administration had just won the election, and the show was addressing social justice issues happening at a PWI for the Black community. There was this girl, Samantha White, who had an anonymous radio show called Dear White People — she was just badass, calling things out — and later people found out who she was. I wanted to do something like that, but I wanted people to know who it was, because I have a big personality and I didn't want depression to take that away. That's where Dear Self Care was born — because of that show.
[05:13] Lori Jo Vest: Got it. And one of the things you said on our prep call that I thought was so great — most people, and I'll admit I'm guilty of this, think of self-care as going to the nail salon, taking a bubble bath, or a spa day. You actually say it's a decision you make. What do you mean by that?
[05:36] Sharnell James: You have to make the decision to choose yourself every day. Everybody I talk to asks me, "How did you get so disciplined?" And I say, I made the decision. It wasn't easy. But you have to choose yourself every single day. We are in a world that is designed to drain us — I heard that from Mel Robbins, and even though I call myself the self-care guru, I'm still learning. When she said that, I thought, she is absolutely right. From the social-political climate we're in right now, from work, from being a mom, a wife — all of these roles are almost designed to drain us. But you have to be willing to take a stance and say, "No, I'm going to choose myself." And choosing myself looks like this.
[06:34] Lori Jo Vest: I'm being reminded of how infrequently I choose myself. So that led you to start a business, because you know how important it is to choose yourself. Tell me — where does your content and advice come from? I know you say self-care has got to be intentional, not occasional. Where does it show up?
[07:16] Sharnell James: My official website is currently in the making — I was actually editing it right before I logged on, so that'll be coming out soon. But people can find me on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook. I'm also getting back into blogging — Dear Self Care was initially supposed to be a podcast, but I love journaling, so I use blogging as a way of journaling. I'll be getting back into that on my Substack.
[08:00] Lori Jo Vest: Got it — so if they go to Instagram and look up "Dear Self Care," that's where they'll find your content and ideas. So how does EQ — emotional intelligence, which I am so married to, I love studying it — how does EQ work together with self-care?
[08:32] Sharnell James: So, as I've been learning about myself and my journey, I do a lot of things in phases. There are four types of self-care — and honestly, Lori, it was after our prep call that I realized how intentional I'd been about this. I started with mental health self-care — therapy, physicals, the gym. Spiritual — I came back to Christ. Social — I'm still navigating that, because friends come and go and you have to put up boundaries. But emotional self-care was something I don't think I truly understood the importance of until I was faced with recognizing my own shit of emotion — can I cuss on here? Sorry, Mom. I was reading The Mountain Is You by Brianna Wiest, and she talks about emotional intelligence and self-sabotage. There's a part in the book where she asks: have you ever been crying about something and just yelled, "I don't ever want to fucking feel like this again"? I have. And she talks about how, as people, we've been taught to suppress our emotions rather than control them — which goes back to the idea that the world is designed to drain us. When something happens to you, you're expected to just pick it up and keep going. Even think about grief — I've lost a lot of people, and I'm just now learning how to grieve, because I watched my mom and dad just keep going and going until they break. Emotional self-care is so important because it's allowing yourself to feel what you have to feel. I'm not saying wallow in sadness or anger — but sometimes you have to allow yourself to feel those emotions so you can learn to control them and become a better version of yourself. It's not easy, because when you think about how much you've suppressed, it gets ugly. But you create different things to help you release those feelings.
[11:40] Lori Jo Vest: Absolutely — and I'll out myself here too. I come from severe trauma and poverty and abuse as a child, and some of us with that background don't even know something's bothering us to the extent it is, because we've suppressed it so much we don't feel it. I have to be really careful to pay attention to how I feel about what's going on around me, and sometimes I have to draw those feelings up because they're so suppressed. But if I don't, I end up in the hospital with some kind of autoimmune flare, because autoimmune disorders are triggered by stress, and one of the biggest sources of stress is not allowing your emotions to come out so you can process and manage them. So how do you recognize when — I mean normal people, not me — how do you recognize you might be headed toward a crash or a breakdown because you're not practicing the self-care you need?
[12:59] Sharnell James: Let me put my stuff out there too, why not — that's what we're here for. I have this thing where my therapist cracks up at me every time I bring it up. Yes, I have a therapist — I am a therapist, and therapists have to have a therapist, that's the only way we stay sane. I told her my biggest fear is doing a podcast or public speaking and somebody in the crowd thinking, "she's lying, she doesn't do any of this" — so let me put myself out there first. For me, when I'm on the verge of burnout, or my emotions have been suppressed for so long that I'm about to break, I get very forgetful — it ties into my anxiety, because my mind is racing about every little thing, and I forget the small stuff because I'm so focused on the big issue clouding my judgment. Sleep — I don't sleep as often, so if you go to bed but still feel lethargic or exhausted, it's because your mind is still racing and focused on something else. You're tired emotionally. Irritability — you get very snippy with people. Eating habits go up and down. Or you can do all your morning routines that are supposed to make you feel good, and you still just don't feel good — that means there's something deeper. This year I was faced with that with my emotions around anger. Growing up, I was surprisingly a person who got angry — I'm a Gemini, so there's that two-personalities thing, being sweet but then "don't try Sharnell, because she's going to go off." I never liked that side of myself, so I always tried to just be positive — until one day it just wasn't working, because I'd suppressed so much instead of learning to control it. And Lori, I kid you not — you're the first person outside my circle to hear this — I punched a hole in my wall.
[16:02] Lori Jo Vest: You were really mad.
[16:04] Sharnell James: I was pissed. I looked at my wall and thought, "Oh my god, what just happened here?" But I felt a sense of relief, and that's when I knew — okay, this emotional self-care puts you to the test, but you can't back down now. I patched the hole, but I haven't painted over it, because it's a reminder that you can be both things — you can be positive, and you can be mad as hell. You can be joyful, and you can be sad. There's no balance if you don't allow yourself to feel both. There's no bad emotion, as long as you let it be good for you.
[16:57] Lori Jo Vest: I always say if you don't have the low lows, you can't have the high highs — you can't have joy if you never experience grief. I'd add: my mom was an alcoholic, and she used alcohol as an anesthetic. In my young adulthood I did the exact same thing — I hated that my mom drank, and I was a normal drinker most of the time, but every time I overdid it and woke up hungover, something had happened that I was ignoring, that I'd told myself wasn't bothering me when it actually was. So being in touch with yourself and having insight into your behavior — you punched a wall, I drank too much — those are really good signs that something needs help, needs assistance, is beyond what you can take care of on your own. What would you tell people to do at that point?
[18:13] Sharnell James: Therapy, of course. But you've got to find something that lets you release — and release healthy. There are rage rooms now —
[18:24] Lori Jo Vest: I want to go to one!
[18:24] Sharnell James: Me too — I need to plan a "Dear Self Care" event for us to go break some things. You gotta get it out. Circling back to working out — that's why I work out so much, because of my anxiety, it shows me I'm bigger than my own thoughts. If I can wake up at 4:30 a.m. and go lift weights, I can do anything in the world. Other times I'm angry about something, I go to the gym, focus on that, and release it there, then go home and do what I have to do. So you've got to find your niche — it's not just the gym. Sometimes I take walks, I journal, I spend money — I'm the one who's going to buy myself a gift to make me feel better.
[19:22] Lori Jo Vest: I will too. I have a Peloton bike, and when I'm not having a good day, I can get on it for 20 minutes, dripping sweat, and think, "what was I even mad about?" I don't remember — I think anger brings chemicals into your body that you can actually sweat out.
[19:49] Sharnell James: And finally — the biggest piece — lean onto your village, your community. You do not have to do this alone. A lot of times when we're angry we feel like no one's going to understand, but sometimes you just want somebody to listen. They're there — lean on them.
[20:11] Lori Jo Vest: I like to say: find your bucket holders. I have girlfriends and we do this for each other — "can you just hold my bucket while I yell about this" — and you get somebody to listen while you vomit out all the crap, then throw it in the trash, and you feel better. It's really normal for me and my girlfriends to call and say, "I need somebody to hold my bucket." One of my girlfriends, Denise, well into her 70s, brought that to me when I had breast cancer — she'd say, "you can't outrun that, honey, just talk to me" — and I would talk and talk and feel better. Find your bucket holders, and you can literally ask people, "will you hold my bucket today?"
[21:24] Lori Jo Vest: So — the other thing we talked about that I found so interesting is that there are different types of self-care to support different aspects of who you are. Tell us about those.
[21:24] Sharnell James: As I mentioned earlier — you have your mental self-care, which is seeking therapy, learning your old patterns. Then emotional self-care. Then social, physical, and spiritual. With spiritual, it's whatever keeps you grounded — for me that's church, prayer, meditation. Social self-care is setting boundaries, making sure your support systems and what you're feeding into yourself from social media and podcasts are good for you.
[22:25] Lori Jo Vest: Huge — curate your feed. That's all I can say.
[22:38] Sharnell James: With our algorithms, whatever you engage with is what you'll keep seeing on your feed, so I hope it's something positive, because social media can be a lot — there's so much happening, and even keeping up with heavy news, you want bite-sized information, because it can become heavy.
[23:08] Lori Jo Vest: And there's only so much we can do. Personally, as a social justice person, I'll share things about what's happening in the country that needs to change, but I have to really watch what I'm ingesting, because I can get stuck in that righteous-anger place, and it's not productive. What is productive is picking up the phone, calling the White House, calling Congress, calling my local reps — because just scrolling about something you're upset about is worse for your stress than feeling like you have some agency to act. So don't doom-scroll — pick up the phone, write a letter, send a text. And you can always unfollow anything that upsets you so you get a really good feed. I follow weird art for weird people and a ton of musicians, so my feed is musicians, art, and my girlfriends — what I've decided I want to look at. Social doesn't have to be crap, but you have to be intentional about it.
[24:48] Sharnell James: Absolutely — otherwise it's going to drain you.
[24:54] Lori Jo Vest: And finding the right friends or social circle — how do you decide who feeds you socially and who doesn't?
[25:06] Sharnell James: I'm currently in that season — recognizing who I want in my circle for this next phase of my life. As I come into this positive personality while also honoring my other emotions, I want people around me who can do the same. I never want to leave a friend hangout feeling drained — I want to be around friends where we're able to pour into and uplift one another, hold each other accountable, and just be peaceful.
[26:07] Lori Jo Vest: Sometimes that means saying goodbye to a friendship or a family relationship — if you visit a certain part of your family and have to recover for three days afterward, maybe you shouldn't be going. Some people are good for your soul, and some just aren't. I like the soul-feeding people — those are my people.
[26:31] Sharnell James: And one thing I've learned — you're born into a family, but there's nothing like the family you create. My "lion sister," who I pledged with — my sword sister — is the perfect depiction of that. She's quick to say, "nope, this person can't do this to my family," because she has to protect her family.
[27:05] Lori Jo Vest: That's a great example — you get to decide who's in your life and who's not. So, back to the types — which of these do you think people neglect the most, and which do you prioritize?
[27:24] Sharnell James: The one people neglect the most is emotional self-care — because, as we said on our prep call, a lot of adults are like eight-year-old children, because they don't know how to deal with their emotions, and that's why a lot of leaders aren't good leaders. For me right now, if I could, I'd prioritize them all — but as far as ranking, number one is emotional, which leads into spiritual, then mental, then social, then physical.
[28:20] Lori Jo Vest: I think physical feeds the rest and helps support them. My goal with EQ — and I'm just starting to see it happen once in a while — is that my husband and I are business partners, eight years now, and we have very different personalities, so it's not always easy. I have to be mindful in conflict to stop and check what I may be about to do before I do it, instead of going straight to "well, you need to —" because those intimate relationships give you the most opportunity to grow. You'll be snappy with your mom, your sister, your husband.
[29:35] Sharnell James: No one told me that about intimate relationships. With my boyfriend now, he's the main reason emotional self-care is number one for me, because he's not going to put up with me shutting down and suppressing — we're going to deal with it. You need people like that to hold you accountable.
[30:04] Lori Jo Vest: When I met my husband, I said he was the only man I'd ever met who owned his own shit — when he messed something up or acted out, he'd apologize for it, own it, change it. That's the kind of people you're looking for — people who understand that snapping at me because you're in a bad mood isn't a good move. If I made you irritated, fine — you're irritated, but that doesn't mean you get to act out. Part of self-care is really choosing the right people. So how do you go about making that decision, if you're like me — always running around, too much to do, not enough attention to yourself?
[31:06] Sharnell James: It started with the gym. Growing up I was always athletic — track, volleyball. Of course, as you get older you slack off, and the pandemic had all of us in the house drinking wine and eating everything.
[31:27] Lori Jo Vest: We made pandemic cookies for about two years — I finally had to stop.
[31:35] Sharnell James: Me, cookies, and wine — we were locked in, and I didn't like how I felt. But getting back into the gym is a mental thing. I started about four years ago and was very inconsistent, until my trainer called me out about it. At first I was like, "don't call me out" — but the version of myself I was working on becoming sat with it. I sat in my car and told myself: you're able to show up for everybody — work, your students, a partner, your parents, your siblings, your friends. Can you dedicate just two hours to yourself? And the rest was history. It was a mindset shift — from "I have to go to the gym today" to "I get to show up for myself by going to the gym today." Think about it — we're able to maneuver our schedules for everybody. Your friend calls having a breakdown at noon, and you rearrange your day for her, but we can't maneuver our schedule for ourselves. I stopped flaking out with certain people to make sure I went to the gym, because I had to do this for me — and if doing this for me means losing you along the way, that means you were never supposed to be a part of this journey to begin with.
[33:31] Lori Jo Vest: I love it. I used to do adult-children-of-alcoholics work, a 10-step program, back in my 20s — one of the things they had you do was talk to your inner child, and consider bringing your inner child with you when you go places. Would that child wear a seatbelt? Would you make them eat a good breakfast, drink enough water, exercise, play outside? Sometimes you have to look at how you treat other people and forcibly apply it to yourself — and it's hard, because we're not used to it.
[34:29] Sharnell James: Yes, absolutely — that's another thing I try to do, even with picking my affirmations, because it's so easy to get caught in "I messed up, I should have done that" — we're our own worst critics. My therapist makes me ask: what if this was a friend talking to you? If a friend said, "I'm struggling to show up for myself, I don't know what to do," what would you tell them? "Show up for yourself." Sometimes we have to talk to ourselves as if we're talking to another person.
[35:12] Lori Jo Vest: Huge — sometimes we won't do things for ourselves that we'd do for others, and it's about prioritizing. If you're not healthy and not feeling good, you can't really be there for other people the way you want to.
[35:29] Sharnell James: You can't. And that's the other thing I'd love to touch on — aside from what I went through myself, the other reason I got so big into self-care in my 30s is my mom. She and I went a couple of years without talking, because I was upset with her for being human. I saw a post that said you reach the final stage of womanhood when you understand your mom — that she wasn't a villain, just a person. My mom had me at 30, and I'm 31 today — I couldn't imagine coming home at 31 to three kids and so much of life she didn't get to live. Watching how her not taking care of herself shifted our dynamics as her children — that's why it's so important to show up for yourself. Now she's doing things for herself, and I love that. It's in honor of her, and it's also to show her that it's never too late to take care of yourself.
[37:04] Lori Jo Vest: Shout out to Sharnell's mom — take care of yourself! She raised a wonderful daughter. I think that's really important to talk about, because a lot of times we're mad at other people when, if we put ourselves in their shoes — I'm the same way with my mom. I didn't talk to my mom for decades, and when I finally did, it was after I'd done a Landmark course, and they said, "unless you're good with your parents, you can't be good with this world." Not that you have to accept whatever they did — just that had you been raised in the exact same circumstances, at the exact same time, you probably would have done the same thing. Once you understand that, it shifts the relationship, and you give up a lot of your anger. That sounds really healthy.
[38:05] Lori Jo Vest: So, as we wrap up — what's one self-care myth you'd like to retire?
[38:15] Sharnell James: That self-care is selfish. It's okay to be selfish — goddammit, it's okay. And I say that in the kindest way — of course you don't want to be hurtful to other people, but people are going to be hurt no matter what when it comes to putting yourself first. If that means someone's mad at me because I put myself first over them, then be mad — because I don't want to deal with the resentment of not choosing myself. Sometimes you have to be a little selfish, because we're always selfless, especially as women.
[39:10] Lori Jo Vest: Honestly, they say this all the time — put your own oxygen mask on first. There's so much we'd do for someone else that we'd never do for ourselves, and we think we can control other people's emotions — "if I do that, they'll be mad." They might not be, or they might be mad no matter what you do. You're not responsible for their emotions — that's on them. Do what's good for you and yours, let the chips fall where they may. You don't have to be unkind, but make your own decisions. I'm in my 60s, Sharnell, and I still struggle with this — not wanting people to be mad at me. But they'll get over it.
[40:02] Sharnell James: I can preach it — it sounds good, but I'm still working on it too, because when you're a kind person who wants everyone happy, it's hard. But darn it, they're gonna be mad. Love them anyway.
[40:22] Lori Jo Vest: They'll get over it. So — favorite go-to: let's say you wake up, spill coffee on the shirt you wanted to wear, run out the door, get to your car and it's out of gas — a really bad day. What's your go-to self-care practice to pull you out of that?
[40:43] Sharnell James: If it's a "wake up and the day's already going wrong" kind of morning, I'm the first person to say, "you know what, the day's canceled — I'm staying home, I'm getting on my couch, I'm going to watch TV." When stuff happens back-to-back like that, sometimes I think maybe the universe is telling me to slow down, so I'll literally stay home. Law & Order: SVU is my comfort show, also The Parkers, and right now I'm rewatching This Is Us — if I have any excuse to stay home and watch This Is Us, I'll take it. But if I can't do that — can't just call in the day — I stop and breathe. If I'm angry or emotional, I let it be, I talk myself up, put on some Megan Thee Stallion, and tell myself I can do hard things, and I keep pressing.
[41:55] Lori Jo Vest: I love it — two things you said: music is so good for the soul. Find those five or six songs you can turn to. I'm a big dance person — no training, but always dancing around the house, and my husband knows I'm in a good mood if I come bopping into his office with music in my head. It helps move energy. And the fact that you can make yourself a promise — "when I get home, I'm going to do this" after a rough day — gives you something to look forward to. For us it's the Twilight Zone — we're always on a marathon, with five or six episodes recorded so we can watch anytime. There's something comforting about that craziness.
[42:57] Sharnell James: Another funny one for me — Real Housewives of Atlanta, the seasons with NeNe Leakes. There was a moment this year I was distraught — hadn't had any girlfriend time because I was so busy with Dear Self Care — and I turned on Real Housewives, poured a glass of wine, and was cackling so hard you'd have thought I was on the episode with them. I felt so good.
[43:32] Lori Jo Vest: Guilty pleasures are always good for self-care, in my opinion. I bake, too — I don't know what that's about, but I've started baking bread because my husband loves it. We raise monarchs, too — having hobbies and things you enjoy just for you is another way to practice self-care. [43:56] Sharnell James: Hobbies are so important, especially as you get older — you need a hobby or two.
[44:00] Lori Jo Vest: And it's not childish — it's feeding your mind and giving yourself things you do just because they're fun.
[44:08] Sharnell James: Right — for my birthday this year my boyfriend got me an iPad, because I already had a Nintendo Switch and play Mario Kart almost every day. Now on the iPad I'm playing word search, because I need to sharpen up my vocabulary and train my brain. I play spades because I love card games — I'm always playing a game. I have an app called Venue where I'm kind of an interior designer for people — I love this mindless entertainment.
[44:42] Lori Jo Vest: Except it's not really mindless — you get to have fun and make things happen. So, as we wrap up — one more time, tell people where to find you and what you're planning for the future. It sounds like a blog or a podcast might be coming.
[45:01] Sharnell James: Everyone can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and LinkedIn under Dear Self Care. I have some great things in the works — my website, my platform, some merch, as well as podcasting and blogging. There are things coming out in the next few months as we close out the year, which I can't believe is coming up so soon. That's where everyone can find me.
[45:37] Lori Jo Vest: Thank you so much for being here today, Sharnell — this was super fun. Self-care is critical to a successful life at home and at work. It really is — if you're not at your best physically, emotionally, and socially, you're not going to be your best in the workplace either. With that, we'll sign off. If you're watching on YouTube, please hit that subscribe button, and share if you're interested — leave us a comment. We have a website at workmomsays.com — you can find a contact form there if you've got someone you'd like us to have as a guest, or a question you'd like me to answer. I'm also on LinkedIn, and I'm an open networker there — just let me know you're connecting as a listener to the podcast.